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03 June 2011 @ 10:58 pm
hey, i can post two days in a row if i want to  
warning, political rant. i'm a lefty. lefty of lefty, ok?

While manning the County Democrat booth at the Italian Picnic and Parade (yes, really) I managed to get into an argument with someone who called himself a democrat (though honestly? he was what one can only call a conservative democrat, and maybe even not that).  He was trying to argue that we could pay for all of the cuts in education if we just took all the criminals who had murdered someone out and shot them (thus not doing expensive death penalty trials for them and not paying for convicted murderers to be housed in prison). 

Look, if it wasn't obvious, I'm more rabidly liberal than most democrats.  Mom tried to get me to back away and not get involved, but the problem with people who are having fun being confrontational is that they persist in doing so - this guy had a point to make and even after I said we'd have to agree to disagree he turned to the guy in the booth next to us and started trying to solicit his agreement in this so-called reasonable *cough*bloodthirsty*cough* plan.

And you know what? I've been raring for a fight. So I turned and looked him in the hostile eye and said that I categorically, adamantly, and utterly believe that it is not my right or the right of the state to take anyone's life. And yeah the budget in CA would be fixed if the state stopped fucking prosecuting for the death penalty (and we wouldn't have to kill anybody to do that. He wanted to know if I really thought Charlie Manson should be alive and here's my thing...

I don't think anyone has the right to kill me. And I don't think you think anybody has the right to kill you. I don't think I have the right to kill anybody, either. I don't think any individual has the right to kill any other individual. Now why would I want the state to have the power to kill anyone if I don't think anybody, ever, has the right to kill anybody else? Screw that.

Course he thought he slapped me down with his whole dismissive 'well then you wouldn't bother to defend our country either, would you?' And it was then that my mom stepped in (which, ok, probably good because I'm getting into arguments in the Democratic booth when all they're trying to do is represent in the community) ... and because it saved me from the reply i would have liked to have made which was to say, in the same dismissive tone, oh, i didn't realize that he was one of those poor naive people who still believed individual nation states actually existed and would waste his life on one.

cuz yeah, i do wonder if the nation state still actually exists given corporate control of so many things, and i continually am bemused by this whole 'patriotism is the most important ideal' attitude. cuz the conservative people think the idea that someone who is willing to die for their country is the only good person, and quite frankly, it's an idiotic trump card. the whole point is NOT to die, but to change the fucking world while we're alive! 

As one of the women who is working on the float with us said yesterday - why is it that the only life republicans want to save the unborn ones?  everybody else should die, especially if they do it for their country!  or if they do something wrong!  kill 'em all!  except for those unborn babies - they're WAY too important!!

let's see, other than that, summer_of_giles summer_of_giles summer_of_giles!!!!!!

and also, claims posts at [community profile] kradambigbang went up and I got fic I'm super excited to work on! Hopefully the author is ok with the stuff I do....

And tomorrow there will be exciting float making. Then Sunday will be ... PARADE! OMG small town fun is amusing.

also posted to dreamwidth | you can reply here or there | um, but don't worry, i'm still an lj girl
seldomifeverseldomifever on June 4th, 2011 05:20 am (UTC)
Yay for lefty lefties! I'm with you 100%.
my monkied brain: g/x - found youkatekat1010 on June 4th, 2011 11:46 am (UTC)
Yay indeed!! thanks darling - it's so good to be among friends, you know?
literate and stylish: rome hugmishloran on June 4th, 2011 05:41 am (UTC)
I think that when people have strong opposing views, a quick chat or five minute (or even hours or days long) argument/discussion is not going to change their views, just upset and anger both parties involved.

But then I also think the best argument against the death penalty is that the system isn't perfect, and that sometimes - if only very, very occasionally - people are killed and then months/years/decades later it is found out that they did not do whatever it was that warranted their death. And the death of one innocent is surely a far greater injustice?

But we don't have the death penalty over here, so we don't really have to think about it.
my monkied brain: buffywill - *hug*katekat1010 on June 4th, 2011 11:48 am (UTC)
Oh and he was raring for a fight, and i think i was too.

Sadly that one often doesn't work with the conservative people because they'd rather kill innocent people than have 'those murderers' on the streets (as if that was the only option). i've had that one used against me in years past, so sad, right?

you are lucky for that my dear.
twilightofmagictwilightofmagic on June 4th, 2011 12:47 pm (UTC)
Your hard left seems eminently reasonable to me. I was watching Bill Maher last night and enjoying his (and Jon Stewart for that matter) withering contempt for some of what passes for political discourse in the country. He always has such great guests and there's true, passionate, lively political discussion on his show.
brutti_ma_buoni: Valeriusbrutti_ma_buoni on June 4th, 2011 03:59 pm (UTC)
*g* Welcome to the rest of the world. You'd fit right in over here. Kinda mainstream, really.

Nationalism/patriotism is difficult, because it does obviously mean something to many people, and I don't despise that. But simple borders aren't all that divides us, and simple common citizenship doesn't necessarily mean we have anything else in common.

Also, I think the syllogism 'you're against the death penalty therefore you wouldn't fight for your country' is one of the dumbest things I've heard. How many countries have armies? All of them (pretty much). How many countries have the death penalty? A hell of a lot fewer. Let alone those who actually exercise it regularly, which is a whole lot less than that. Duh. You may well, in feeling that human life is important/sacred/key to our society, feel that war is a hideous thing to be avoided insofar as possible, but that isn't the same argument.

But you know that.

Edited at 2011-06-04 07:59 pm (UTC)
missus_gracemissus_grace on June 5th, 2011 02:21 am (UTC)
We can't take you anywhere, can we? ;)

I pretty much agree with you re: the death penalty. Although after reading a couple of comments from survivors of childhood rape over on booju newju I now believe that anyone who rapes a child really needs to rot in hell. I pretty much don't care how they get there.

*runs to lock up my children*

Edited at 2011-06-05 06:21 am (UTC)
my monkied brainkatekat1010 on June 5th, 2011 02:28 am (UTC)
pretty much, no! :D

and hey, trust me, i do not want people who commit violent crimes (among them child rape for sure) anywhere near anyone else ever. EVER. but yeah, they can rot in prison, and a deity (if there is one) can sort 'em out after they die cuz i am totally not taking their lives, you know?

oh sweetest! *hugs*